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The politics of it all..........

Fletch

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I was watching some old wwf tapes from many moons ago and then some from today and to me theres definetly differences.

Sure theres the difference in the styles of programs they put out now and also the style of wrestling has evolved to what it is today and that theres more of an entertainment value labelled with wwe and others now that we didnt have 10,20 years ago even on that fateful night in 1984 when Hulkamania was born.

What I feel has changed more than anything is tyhe politics behind the wrestling now and to be honest I think the recent slump in the business is mostly due to too much focus ont eh politics of it all. I mean lets face it in a way the Hell in A cell match we witnessed just the other day at Bad Blood was politics, just a way of Triple H keeping himself in the main event despite not being the World Champion. In some ways I suppose that even belittles the World Championship itself showing that it isnt considered a main event championship and thus taking away credibility from the championship.

For every good political decision in someones favour it worls against someone else. If X wrestler wot job to Z wrestler then rather than change the finish they change the match completely putting the one guy over and ruining the others TV time, just for example that is.

Another thing i have a big opinion on is Triple H, ok ive already trod on some of this ground but its a big subject. Ok Trips might be one of my favourite wrestlers from the past 4 years and lets face it no one on RAW at the moment with the exceptions being HBK and Jericho are a touch on him, but they way he uses his TV time and his character due to the fact he doesnt want to look bad on TV is ridiculous. Now Im not saying Trips is old but lets face it Trips wont be in ring forever and now hes the boss' son in law I would say theres a good chance he could be part of the few people who run the company when Vince steps down. Now be it or not for me to judge but shouldnt Triple H as great as a locker room leader he is be trying to help younger guys like Shelts and Maven rather than squashing them and making them look pathetic like he does. Of course I bet he thought jobbing to Shelts was helping but since then Shelt push has died down and he appears to be more of a Heat star than RAW Star.

I think thats a great example of how politics ruin the wrestling and its a very high profile example but one that shows the poor WWE booking policy and how Trips basically runs RAW nowadays. I think its high time the politics stopeed to be honest and we focused on whats going on in the ring like it should be. Wrestlings an art form, its like a Picasso painting and these politics messing it up is like tipping black paint down the Picasso painting. Wrestlings dying on its feet, it needs to get back what it once was and with these stupid politics it never will, dont let it die.
 

drunkenHobbit

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Quality post F2K.

The problem you highlight has been around wrestling for years, but is usually not seen this strongly.

It is all about the booker and what they want. You can also see it to a certain extent with what Jarret is doing over in TNA:NWA. Booker becomes biggest talent and therefore takes the belt and becomes the big star. And will screw anybody who doesnt follow his lead.

There have always been better wrestlers who have been held back, because for some reason the booker didnt like there attitude or personna ,RVD is a current example. RVD has criticized parts of the WWE and the result has been to make him Job to everybody. However Jobbers sometimes do their reward.

One of the biggest Jobbers was Mick Foley. He took the fall for so many guys over the years and now he is in a position to say, "hell im going to write a book and your gonna help me promote it" to the WWE. And the biggest Jobber of them all "The Brooklyn Brawler" happens to be one of the promo creative team, who helped the Rock become so huge.

Unfortunatley the booker (creative team) are the ones taht hold the power and if an established name becomes part of that team, then of course it gonna be in his intrest to keep it going in his favour. Triple HHH's title reigns etc are planned to be so long so that he gets maximum exposure (and cash) before his Films start coming out. Its the same reason the Rock comes back just before a film comes out
 

Evil Gringo

Not really Evil, but I like Burritos
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The ultimate question is... did HHH dump Chyna for Steph because he liked her just for her... Was it not there in the back of his mind that he was getting his foot in the door of the worlds biggest wrestling company?

I mean Vince has to transfer Steph because if she stays as chief writer and her main underling is Kevin Dunn who is a big pal of HHH's then all of the storylines and matches are going to come under question so long as they contain HHH...
 

Jack

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The answer to that ultimate question is HHH dumped Chyna because he decided he wasnt gay :lol:
Seriously I think HHH being married to Stephanie is a cause for him being blamed for too many things. In 2000-2002 HHH was the best wrestler around and so was Stone Cold, and both are now crap but HHH is better but why do people say HHH holds people down etc when he has done a better job than Austin recently? Because people thing he is around becasue of Stephanie. Stone Cold may be a huge draw but so is HHH if you think about it but both have different crowd reactions because of their face/heel status. Let me ask if Stone Cold was a huge heel like HHH and HHH was like Stone Cold you wouldnt doubt HHH's job. Stone Cold before he left was doing pretty much the same things as HHH was but as a face, such as comeing to the ring and stunnering people when he wanted to, but when HHH has a match, makes people like Shelton Benjamin look good and then wins why is it HHH comes off worse than Austin has done?
Now with people like Paul London, Rob Van Dam etc there IS a reason why they arnt at the top of the ladder with the likes of HHH and that is because they dont fit the wrestlers look and mic skills. Back in the 80s or if you watch World of Sport you will see they same thing happening. You have talented wrestlers like Johnny Saint and even The Dynamite Kid midcarding and then at the top of the card you have Big Daddy! A useless wrestler. My point is if wrestlers arnt big enough or good enough on the mic they wont get to the top. Outside of WWE you have these small wrestlers like AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels and Low Ki but if they ever get to the WWE they wont main event but if they were 6'4" and bulit like Lesnar they would main event, not because "Vince likes big guys" but because the vast majority of fans like big guys, whereas internet fans would rather have a smaller guy at the top. Vince gives his audience what they want and the majority want big guys.
 

Tajiri

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jackbibby said:
Vince gives his audience what they want and the majority want big guys.
WCW proved from 96 to 98 that a well booked Cruiserweight division can be a succesfull ratings draw and crowd heat getter.

Jack how do you know casual WWE fans don't want smaller guys?

When has a smaller work ever been given a push that has failed because he's small?, you can't answer that because smaller workers don't get given pushes in WWE because McMahon doesn't like smaller workers and therefore his writing staff of "yes men" don't like smaller workers.
 

Jack

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Tajiri said:
WCW proved from 96 to 98 that a well booked Cruiserweight division can be a succesfull ratings draw and crowd heat getter.
WWF destroyed WCW back then so WWF with big guys beat WCW with smaller guys
Tajiri said:
Jack how do you know casual WWE fans don't want smaller guys?
I dont but Vince does, Vince is a great buisnessman with a good wrestling mind so if cruiserweights worked he would pick them
Tajiri said:
When has a smaller work ever been given a push that has failed because he's small?, you can't answer that because smaller workers don't get given pushes in WWE because McMahon doesn't like smaller workers and therefore his writing staff of "yes men" don't like smaller workers.
Smaller guys dont get pushes because Vince knows it wouldnt work.
 

Tajiri

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jackbibby said:
WWF destroyed WCW back then so WWF with big guys beat WCW with smaller guys
WWF didn't pull away from WCW in the ratings untill 99 by which point the Cruiserweight division was dead but thats not the point, I didn't claim a division would save a show I said it would be great addition to a show.

jackbibby said:
I dont but Vince does, Vince is a great buisnessman with a good wrestling mind so if cruiserweights worked he would pick them.
WBF, XFL and 50% drop in WWE audinence in 12 months say Vince is far from perfect in the business world, as for his wrestling success, for every Rock or Austin theres a Nathan Jones, Scott Stiener, Lex Xpress and Katie Vick.

jackbibby said:
Smaller guys dont get pushes because Vince knows it wouldnt work.
Worked well for every other promotion who's tried it.
 
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Jack

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Im not denying it would be good for WWE from a fans perspective but do you believe if Vince knew for a fact the CW division would work then he wouldnt do it?
WWE is all about storylines and I believe if there was a cruiserweight version of The Rock or another good speaker then I think WWE would push them but at the moment there is very little mic talent in the cruiserweight division.
 

Andy

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2 words for mic talent in the cruiserweight division............Jamie Noble
 

Evil Gringo

Not really Evil, but I like Burritos
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Wrestlers should not be judged by Mic work alone... Benoit in WCWwas hugely over despite his lack of mic skills.... so was Rey and the rest of the cruisers because they didn't need a twenty plus minute dirge... they told the story of the match and fued through actions...

Actions speak louder then words IMO...

Politics pushed Eddie, Benoit and the rest down in WCW and did for a while in WWE, it was only till now when Vince realises his needs more top line workers that he's given em a chance...
 

Jack

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Maybe Vince will do the same he has done for Eddie and Benoit for the likes of RVD and Booker T.
I think if Rey was better on the mic he would be in the scene for the US title. Mic work is important for a wrestler that is why I see Eddie as a better champion than Benoit. I would say Benoit is better in the ring but wrestlers need a whole round package which most cruiserweights dont have.
 

Fletch

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personally i dont give a rats arse about the cruiserweight divison and i know if i dont liek it im not the only one, vince is trying it for a start because if you dont try ideas you wont know if they work or not but the thing is vince has given the division time and its still failing sdo why keep it up. I think the idea to push it would have people like Noble, Rey, Tajiri etc get main event pushes and return then to the cruiserweight division to give it some credibility

on to the main point Triple H has always seemed to have a certain degree of pull in wwe, be it in the cliq or with Steph, but i think to answer your question it certainly wasnt love that Trips married Steph for. Triple H wants wwe to be his and what better way to get the ball rolling than marrying in to the family that runs the business, and the fact of the matter is theres a fair chance he'll get away with it.

Its obvious Shane doesnt want to ber on air all the time if vince steps down and then they would need on air figure to run it on screen and ioh look Triple H has bene on tv for years lets give him the on air role as owner, let him do all the booking and give him a share in the company. What Triple H wants a divorce? ANd he wants at least half of wwe? oh well let him have it he knows what hes doing, hell just get someone like Orton to hold the belt for 3 years only letting it go for a few months. That worked before itll work again
 

Tajiri

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f2k said:
is vince has given the division time and its still failing sdo why keep it up.
When did WWE ever give the Cruiserweight division a serious push?
 

Jack

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Tajiri you dont understand, why would Vince give the Cruiserweight division a push if he thinks it wouldnt work?
 

Bob Greenberg

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Vince doesn't know the cruiserweight division wouldn't work because he personally hasn't tried it.
The fact is Smackdown sucks and many veiwers are starting to accept the fact it's stale.....How do you cure that? By making it exciting
Vince needs to get rid of his predijuices of smaller works and start pushing them now
 

Tajiri

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jackbibby said:
Tajiri you dont understand, why would Vince give the Cruiserweight division a push if he thinks it wouldnt work?
I don't think you understand Jack, f2k claims the Cruiserweight division was given a push and failed, i'm enquiring as to when it was given this push.
 

Jack

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The cruiserweight division was given a push in WCW and maybe Vince thinks his company wouldnt suit having the division in it.
 

Bob Greenberg

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jackbibby said:
The cruiserweight division was given a push in WCW and maybe Vince thinks his company wouldnt suit having the division in it.
Yes, and it was succesful so whats your point?
 

MARTIN316V1

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Why Push the Cruiserweight Division?. I dont think i want Paul London, Shannon Moore and the crew on my TV each week :lol: . Keep them on Velocity, also where was the Cruiserweight/Lightheavyweight Division in the WWE in 1998-2001? No Where and that was during the most succesfull years in the companys history. So why push it now? With all respect id rather be watching Big Show vs Undertaker than Nunzio vs Jamie Noble...
 
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