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Scottish Independence

Should Scotland Be An Independant Country?


  • Total voters
    18
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Paul

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,526
Points
113
So 18 September 2014 will be the vote for Scottish independence, polls tend to put the support for the YES vote at only around 37%.

But what do you think? Do you support independence for the Scottish?

Me, I'd rather they stayed in the UK, but if they choose independence I would support them all the way.
 

Anime Otaku

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,055
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63
I'll be voting yes (once I reregister), I'd rather have a government we voted for not one the south of England voted for and be rid of Trident which, if I could drive is under 30 minutes from where I live. I'd like to head off the "you hate the English" claims, at least for myself, my dad is a former Petty Officer in the Royal Navy so growing up in married quarters and the church we had loads of friends from down south.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
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36,526
Points
113
How do you feel about the claims that Scotland wont be able to keep the pound sterling, and that you may not get into the EU, both things being important to Salmonds White Paper stuff?
 

Anime Otaku

Well-Known Member
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The "not getting the pound" stinks of a scare tactic as prior statements have been made by Westminister official (I think it was Darling) saying that sharing the Pound would be the most sensible solution, and considering the wealth Scotland would have from North Sea and potentially West Coast oil (once the nukes are off the Clyde) I don't think joining the Euro would be a big deal as the Oil and Renewables plus high tech industry, Whisky and our culture/tourism industry. We'd be nearer Germany than Greece if we were in the Euro.

As for the EU, unless it has been said again the threat to block entry came from a Spanish minister who I think was rebuked by his own government, and even if not the context is important. Certain parts of Spain would not like to see a successful push for independence in europe as they are trying to discourage Basque and Catalan nationalists and us being successful and welcomed into the EU, who we do a lot of trade with, would hurt their efforts to deny a referrendum on Catalan or Basque independence, although geography complicates things for the Basque people as their prospective homeland is over the France/Spain border.
 

Omega

Global Modd
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Messages
17,043
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See, you say "who we trade with".... who trades with? All the Scottish exports to Spain would be? You mean the country as a whole trades with Spain basesd on the collective power and resources we all share.

And therein lies the exact reason we're all stronger as a collective than trying to be tiny, tiny fish is a massive pond and I'd happily include a totally independent England as a tiny fish in a massive pond. Great Britain has history and power, Scotland or Wales or England don't.

And the spurious argument that "We didn't vote in the government, the south did" is such, such bullsh*t. On that basis then everywhere north of Basingstoke should be independent because they didn't get the government they wanted?

So what about when you get the independence vote and manage to squeak in a slim majority and the 49% of Scots who wanted to stay should then all move to the lowlands and join back up with Britain because they didn't vote to be independent.

Abortions for some, tiny Scottish flags for others....
 

Anime Otaku

Well-Known Member
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12,055
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I eas referring to the trade with the EU as a whole and uniquely Scottish produce like Whiskey along with Scottish Beef, Lamb and Fish which have a reputation for high quality. We also have a growing renewables sector making use of the crappy weather we get up here and Oil that is projected to make the economy comparable to Norway which is also oil rich and has a similar population (200k difference, I think Scotland was the smaller). Though they are having trouble with their economy... they are pulling in so much oil money they are struggling to spend it all. I'll look it up but I am sure I've seen it statec that far from being a small fish post indy Scotland would be one of the bigger economies in Europe. Politically too we would probably grow in power, at the moment Scotland (yes as part of the larger UK delegation) has only 5 MEPs, Norway, who as I said is a similar nation to an independent Scotland, has something like 35.
As for the unrepresentative government it was a while ago but the last time the tories got in do you know how many MPs they had in Scottish seats? Zero, that just seems patently unfair to me, the Scottish PR system is far fairer. While sure should independence go through there will be some people who'll be disappointed but in the long run I sincerely believe we will be better off.
 

Omega

Global Modd
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So it's the highly expensive oil fields plus some cows and fish and booze. If you have to be entirely responsible for building your renewable energy plants in the first place, setting up new north sea oil platforms etc. It's just so easy when you assume you're going to just "get" everything. Just like Alex Salmond thinks Scotland has a right to the Pound (incorrect, though it's probably easier all round to share it) or access to the EU at some kind of level where Scotland even vaguely registers on the radar of places like Germany or France or..... Britain.

And those Norwegians eh, you always hear about how powerful they are in determining European policy and all their seats on the UN security council and so forth. Norway, the power players of European politics!
 

John Hancock

Well-Known Member
Senior Moderator
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Messages
23,143
Points
98
I vaguely like the idea of Britain staying together, plus, the "Yes" people have been vastly more annoying and unreasonably self-deluded on any social media I've had the misfortune of seeing, so they've shot themselves in the foot as far as I'm concerned.
 

etz

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,327
Points
48
The irony of Scottish people screaming for local government, then voting Labor is hilarious to me...
 

The Fury

The Last King of Scotland
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5,714
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48
I'm voting no, there's not enough in the tank for the yes vote to change me mind with BP saying they're not for it, the pound not being kept (and i quite believe that) and the fact everything has been a clusterf**k. EU have said is nearly impossible to be in the EU without applying and quite frankly i don't believe we will have more power within EU. As much as i hate to say this, the U.K have the right to say no because it's their currency and we can't be truly independent if we can't even form our own currency. Plus the armies would need to be completely redone (for those who don't think we need one look at the recent floods). Plus the streets of Scotland have simply not developed enough and there's poverty, social and other issues to deal with first to grow and then consider independence. And this is purely personal but the public sector work where i have a job has no security from it especially with more cuts set to happen along with police and fire headquarters closing.

Don't get me wrong, would love for it to happen but we're not ready yet.

Also f**k alex salmond, i hope he resigns once they lose
 

The Fury

The Last King of Scotland
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5,714
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48
aw belty I was hoping for you to come in on this all guns blazing! :lol:
 

Anime Otaku

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,055
Points
63
Silly Scotland.
I'm just going to assume (probably wrongly) you are referring to Anas Sarwar. :D

And I'm still looking stuff up but I will say that "some booze" contributes almost 5 billion pounds to the economy each year. And while Norway is not a political powerhouse, and I didn't intend to seem like I thought they were by talking about their MEPs, they do have the highest living standards in the world and like I said, similar size of population and Scotland looks to have similar oil reserves.
 

The Beltster

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,370
Points
113
No idea who the guy is, no idea of his policies or opinions, dont really know enough about all this to make a detailed, informed opinion, so I'll leave it at silly Scotland. I dont see how the country is going to be able to stand alone and succeed. But hey, I'm not really interested either way, if Scotland wants to go it alone, by all means.
 

Omega

Global Modd
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I'm just going to assume (probably wrongly) you are referring to Anas Sarwar. :D

And I'm still looking stuff up but I will say that "some booze" contributes almost 5 billion pounds to the economy each year. And while Norway is not a political powerhouse, and I didn't intend to seem like I thought they were by talking about their MEPs, they do have the highest living standards in the world and like I said, similar size of population and Scotland looks to have similar oil reserves.
You think becoming independent is magically going to stop the Scottish eating shit food, drinking too much, fighting each other (no more English to fight after all) and generally is going to eradicate all the poverty in the country.

I love that you assume somehow Scotland is being held down by the tyrannical rule of the British government, if your country is a shithole it's because it;s own citizens don;t care to make it any other way.

At least you can have all your tramps back and all your f*cking annoying bagpipe players.
 

Magic

The first apple tree.
Forum Leader
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I'll be voting no, for various reasons, but I don't really want to go into it much further. I'm already sick of the entire debate completely and can't wait until the whole thing is over.

And yeah, f*ck the bagpipe players. I hate them. I want to do my shopping in piece and quiet.
 

John Hancock

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The irony of Scottish people screaming for local government, then voting Labor is hilarious to me...
I've been thinking that too. It's funny that there's a real sort of hooray-Henry, champagne Socialist, leftish-wing grassroots effort for a cause that so, so right-wing. It's a really nationalist, anti-state, classically reactionist agenda with some quite nasty xenophobic undertones, and a lot of populist utopianism, and supposedly left wing tag-alongs are jumping on board because.... flags?
 

Magic

The first apple tree.
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What I found strange was, when Nigel Farage came here last year, he was hounded and harassed to the point where he had to take cover in a pub opposite my mates house by left wing, pro-independence Scottish nationalists.

So pro-independence campaigners were protesting a pro-independence campaigner. Right...
 

Omega

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I guess that too is an odd thing, why leave the British union to pretend to be independent when instead you'll be independently paying all your dues to the EU instead.
 

Inno

I'm the good looking one up there
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I think there's too many people in the West Of Scotland (all caps because that place is it's own f*cking planet sometimes) that swear allegiance to the glorious Union and The Queen to let it all go quietly, no matter how many facts and figures the eminently self righteous Yes campaigners fudge or smudge.

Tell a guy standing in a pub in Larkhall covered in FTP tattoos and drinking under a framed, illuminated picture of The Queen that Scotland won't be a part of the UK and see how many stitches you receive :D

Like Magic, I'll be glad when it's all over and done with, I'm sick of the constant #INDYREF wars on Twitter that take oiver my timeline on a regular basis, from usually sane people too.

I know how I'm voting, I may change my mind, I may not - but I'll decide, not a parade of celebs or semi intellectuals extolling the virtue of what they think I should do.
 
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