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NXT Season Premiere Discussion Thread - June 8, 2010 from Tampa Bay, FL (#16)

TPIB

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The Season Finale of NXT scored a 1.2 rating, which is up from the previous week's 0.8 number.

Venue

St. Pete Times Forum in Tampa Bay, FL

NXT Rookies
Kaval (WWE Pros- Michelle McCool & Layla)
Michael McGillicutty (WWE Pro- Kofi Kingston)
Eli Cottonwood (WWE Pro- John Morrison)
Alex Riley (WWE Pro- The Miz)
Husky Harris (WWE Pro- Cody Rhodes)
Jason "Lucky" Cannon (WWE Pro- Mark Henry)
Percy Watson (WWE Pro- MVP)
Titus O'Neil (WWE Pro- Zack Ryder)


Confirmed Matches/Events

The New WWE Pros & NXT Rookies To Debut
 

Omega

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Genuinely looking forward to a wrestling show, first for a long time.
 

Sparrow

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Yeah I am looking forward to it, even though some of the names are not to my fancy. Some of the wrestlers dont look like I would enjoy but I said that about Wade, so we will see.
 

Dogfingers

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Are thye gonna do the whole "my entire family have been killed," X-factor sob story shit with that Lucky Cannon berk? Never the less this actually looks pretty decent even if the pro's are a step down from last season.
 

FreeSpirit

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I can't wait for Kaval's all seriousness to interact with Lay-Cool's playful shenanigans. This pairing should be really interesting over the next 12+ weeks.
 

FreeSpirit

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Results:

Credit:
pwinsider.com

WWE NXT
Airing This Thursday in The UK


We start off tonight’s show with a look back at the night that the NXT rookies got their revenge on John Cena, Matt Striker, CM Punk, Luke Gallows, Jerry Lawler, the Announce Table, and many more things and people.
We are live on tape from Tampa, Florida and your announcers are Michael Cole and Josh Mathews. Your host is Matt Striker.

Matt is in the ring and he is holding his ribs while talking about the rookies from season one and the impact they made. Matt wonders if season two rookies will do the same thing.

The Miz comes out and he introduces the next WWE breakout star, Alex Riley. They are all buddy buddy as they walk to the ring. Out next is John Morrison to bring out his rookie, who he says is the tallest. He introduces Eli Cottonwood. Cody Rhodes comes out and he introduces his rookie, Husky Harris. The next pros are Layla and Michelle McCool and they bring out Kaval. Kaval carries their belts to the ring and he looks like he would rather be somewhere else. Mark Henry is out next to bring out the man who might not be the world’s strongest rookie, but he is Lucky Cannon. Kofi Kingston comes out to introduce Michael McGillicutty. Montel Vontavious Porter comes out and he introduces his rookie Percy Watson. Porter tells Percy to turn it down to a six from twelve. Zack Ryder comes out and he brings out his rookie Titus O’Neil.

Matt wants the rookies to allow the camera to see them. Matt mentions that the rookies in season one were evaluated by the pros. This season, only half of the evaluation will be based on the pros. The rest will be based on the WWE Universe.

Matt says that Season Two will be very different than Season One. It will only be twelve weeks long. In three weeks, the first poll will be revealed. After six weeks, we will have the first elimination. Who will be the next Wade Barrett and get a pay per view title match.

The rookies start pushing each other and the pros have to hold them back. We go to commercial.

We are back and Michael and Josh talk about what happened when Season One of NXT got real and attacked John Cena and a lot of other people before destroying the ring. Cole says that he was able to get away.

Match Number One: Eli Cottonwood and John Morrison versus Titus O’Neil and Zack Ryder

Morrison and Ryder start things off and Ryder pushes Morrison. They lock up again and Morrison with a forearm. Cottonwood tags in and Ryder backs up and tags in O’Neil. Cottonwood with a kick and side head lock. Cottonwood with a shoulder tackle but O’Neil stays on his feet. Ryder distracts Cottonwood and O’Neil with a shoulder and near fall. O’Neil barks at Cottonwood and Cottonwood with a kick. Cottonwood with an Irish whip and clothesline into the corner. Morrison tags in and hits a slingshot kick and O’Neil goes to the floor as we go to commercial.

We are back and Ryder with a side head lock on Morrison. Morrison with punches and a clothesline. Morrison with a leg lariat and he gets a near fall. Ryder with a kick and he tags in O’Neil. Morrison with an enzuigiri to the shoulder and Ryder breaks up the cover but Cottonwood with a boot to Ryder. Morrison with the split legged corkscrew moonsault for the three count.

Winners: John Morrison and Eli Cottonwood

After the match, Matt wants to know what he thought of Eli Cottonwood. John asks the crowd what they thought. He says that some were happy with him but some weren’t happy. He says that everyone had an opinion and it was good.

Matt asks the Miz what he thought. He says that they had an opportunity to impress and entertain the audience. He wants to know if they thought they impressed anyone tonight. Miz says that he wasn’t entertained and they failed.

Michael Cole shows some love for the Miz and says that he should be in a coaches Hall of Fame.

It is time for a video package for Alex Riley. He says that he is from Georgetown, Virginia. He says that he wishes he had a ‘Rocky’ story but he doesn’t. His father was a New York Jet and his mother was a former Miss Virginia. He says that they should call the show Alex Riley and the Seven Dorks. He says that he went to Boston College to play football. He says that he was born to be a WWE Champion. He says that he is a rare breed. They should write in the sky that Alex Riley has arrived and he is running the show.

We go to commercial.

Match Number Two: Husky Harris and Cody Rhodes versus Montel Vontavious Porter and Percy Watson

Watson and Rhodes start things off and Watson dances while wearing his glasses. They lock up and Rhodes with a side head lock and shoulder tackle. Rhodes flexes and they lock up again. Rhodes with a hammer lock and side head lock. Rhodes backs Watson into the corner and Rhodes with a kick and punch. Rhodes with an Irish whip but Watson floats over and hits a clothesline. Rhodes with a jawbreaker and then he kicks Watson in the head. Harris tags in and he kicks Watson. Harris with a forearm and then he hits a splash in the corner from a three point stance. Harris with a gutwrench suplex and then he is told to tag Rhodes back in. The referee sends Rhodes back since he did not hold the ropes. Rhodes with a suplex to Watson and he gets a near fall. We go to commercial.

We are back and Rhodes with a rolling knee drop to Waston. Rhodes with a boot to the abdomen. Harris tags in and he kicks and punches Watson. Harris with a slam and a back senton for a near fall. Porter makes the tag and he punches Harris. Porter with a clothesline followed by a double thrust and facebuster. Porter with a slam and then he hits the Ballin elbow. Rhodes comes off the top but Porter with a boot after being warned by Watson. Watson tags in and hits a floatover DDT for the three count.

Winners: Percy Watson and Montel Vontavious Porter

After the match Matt Striker is in the ring. Matt asks Cody about Husky Harris. Cody tells Husky that he looks awfully familiar. He looks someone in his family, and like everyone in the crowd. He doesn’t want to talk about Husky Harris. He asks Porter if he can mold his rookie into a superstar but he will do it to his rookie.

Porter says that Showtime wanted to show what he could do and he was able to get out of some trouble. He says that he thinks that Watson is ready.

We go to a video package for Michael McGillicutty. He says that he is part of wrestling royalty. He talks about his grandfather Larry Hennig and his father Curt Hennig. He says that he has royal blood in his veins and he is ready to make an impact. He says that his opportunity to shine is now. He will be the next breakout star in the WWE. He says that NXT is the stepping stone to the next level. He says that his in ring style is ruthless. He talks about how Ruthless Aggression is back. It is up to him to continue the Hennig family legend.

We go to commercial.

We are back and the rookies and pros are in the ring and they are possibly going to play Red Rover in the ring. It is time to take a look back at the carnage left by the first NXT class.

We are back in the arena after viewing the footage.

Matt asks Kaval about what he just saw. Kaval says that it was simply unbelievable that the first season of NXT would do that but that is how you make a statement in the WWE. Matt asks Lucky about what he just saw. He says that what they did was cowardly. An eight on one attack on John Cena then attacking the referees. But Kaval was right that is how you make an impact. Husky says that he doesn’t care about what he saw because he is here to win NXT. Alex Riley fakes a few sneezes and then Matt pushes Riley away after saying that he is allergic to Matt. Percy says that if you want to fight a man you do it one on one. Eli says that John Cena deserved every bit of it. Titus O’Neil says that he thinks that Season One should try to do that to them. He says that if you are going to fight, make it a fight, but if you want to win, make it a win. He tells Zack that if he pushes him again, John Cena won’t be the only one who will have to answer. Michael McGillicutty comments on what Titus and Alex did. Michael says that season one rookies made an impact. Matt cuts off Michael and then Matt says that there is a concern in the locker room for what everyone does. Matt says that on behalf of the pros and the people in the locker room as well as the people who got slaughtered last night, Matt welcomes them to the WWE.

The pros decide to keep the new rookies in line by attacking them to send a message. Michelle and Layla slap Kaval and then it is an eight on seven attack. They finish things off with a World’s Strongest Slam to Titus O’Neil.

We go to credits!
 

Jung

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So did the Raw angle even happen or was it a wonderful dream I had?

Cause this show sounds shit. Same as old NXT, everyone is a jobber and to cap it off we then have the WWE jobbers destroy the NXT guys who were all useless anyway and I didn't really see the point of the show, unless they are going to do a replica of the last NXT and they get buried for ages before finally flipping.

Crap show either way.
 

Omega

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The ending made no sense to me. Fine, the "stars" are worried about the rookies attacking them but the season one guys weren't even on the show or made any noise that they were "supporting" the newbies. Plus why are the faces sneak attacking the rookies? Who does that get over? I guess it's too early to decry the whole show but I genuinely can't see where that piece of booking takes the show.
 

Jung

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Not to mention various small rubbish pieces of booking. Joe Hennig is called Michael McGullicutty we assume to distance himself from being Curt's son...no that's mentioned straight away.

And instead of putting over the Raw attack, they just go and say it was cowardly, they are nobodies. It's like the people who book NXT and the people who book Raw have completely different ideas over what's good booking and don't communicate on the same page.

I mean Matt Striker says this season of NXT will be different to the last...well so far it's shaping up to be exactly the same. It's just classic WWE parity booking which has never worked and will never work, yet will keep being pushed as if that's what made Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock. It's so frustrating.
 

Omega

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Not to mention various small rubbish pieces of booking. Joe Hennig is called Michael McGullicutty we assume to distance himself from being Curt's son...no that's mentioned straight away.

And instead of putting over the Raw attack, they just go and say it was cowardly, they are nobodies. It's like the people who book NXT and the people who book Raw have completely different ideas over what's good booking and don't communicate on the same page.

I mean Matt Striker says this season of NXT will be different to the last...well so far it's shaping up to be exactly the same. It's just classic WWE parity booking which has never worked and will never work, yet will keep being pushed as if that's what made Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock. It's so frustrating.
I don't know what else they can say though really? The heels said they did it to make an impact and the faces said it was cowardly, that's only logical really. The season 1 guys clearly look to be a heel group so realistically no one can be pro-them bar the heel rookies.

The name thing is si ply ridiculous when you have the various Hart familiy members, cody rhodes and ted dibiase (he even has the same damn name!) making a living off their names. Given McGillicutty's gimmick is that he's wrestling royalty it is totally retarded. I'd rather they called him Son of Perfect or Perfect squared or some shit like that and just go with it.

Has anyone seen the matches and got an idea if anyone is any good?

EDIT: Saw the end of Husky/Rhodes V Watson/MVP both looked ok I guess though Watson's floatover DDT look really weak for a finisher. Dig Husky's tatoos on his back.

O'neil looks super green and cottonwood is just huge and slow. I feel perhaps cottonwood loses the impact of his size being debuted like this. Unless he consistently wins and looks like a monster then his biggest (boo boom) advantage is already compromised.
 
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takemethere

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I thought the ending made sense. I was a bit confused when Striker kept cutting the rookies off and acting weird but all that made sense when I realised what was coming. It made the attack on RAW seem like an even bigger deal and made sure there was no question of the new rookies just doing the same thing. Apart from that it was pretty average, but like the first season I think it will get better when there are fewer rookies and we know them better.
 

Dave7g

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It was bad, I don't care about the rest of the season already. Some guys looked good, "Husky Harris" can actually work and Alex Riley does a great impression of the Miz. Eli Cottenwood is unbelievably shit though, possibly worse than Khali.

Oh yeah, at the beginning Michael Cole is jumping out of his seat to tell us that "Percy Watson" is very entertaining. Well, he's not. Not in any sense of the word. He's a clown.
 
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Omega

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I thought the ending made sense. I was a bit confused when Striker kept cutting the rookies off and acting weird but all that made sense when I realised what was coming. It made the attack on RAW seem like an even bigger deal and made sure there was no question of the new rookies just doing the same thing. Apart from that it was pretty average, but like the first season I think it will get better when there are fewer rookies and we know them better.
Really? I'd have thought the rookies would be more likely to attack their mentors after getting a beatdown...
 

Jung

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I don't know what else they can say though really? The heels said they did it to make an impact and the faces said it was cowardly, that's only logical really. The season 1 guys clearly look to be a heel group so realistically no one can be pro-them bar the heel rookies.
They don't have to say anything.

I mean did they say Bret Hart was cowardly and rubbish at WM for basically having it be about 8 people versus Vince McMahon?

It's like the NXT rookies form a heel group all of a sudden and then the new rookies either ignore it or say it's good, the WWE crew ignore everything they say and beat them down for good measure to prove a point. But the WWE guys are faces?

They aren't getting revenge, they are beating on guys who while some deserve it, some only said the obvious (they made a grand statement, which isn't a heel thing to say it's the truth).

Who do you boo or who do you cheer? You can't boo the new guys cause they've done nothing wrong and they are nobodies, yet you can't really cheer the faces or WWE crew cause they are destroying a bunch of guys for no real reason.

It's just shitty parity booking that serves no purpose than make people confused and thus, not caring.

I thought the ending made sense. I was a bit confused when Striker kept cutting the rookies off and acting weird but all that made sense when I realised what was coming. It made the attack on RAW seem like an even bigger deal and made sure there was no question of the new rookies just doing the same thing.
Surely what they did was make the new rookies want to attack them even more?

Did the rookies attack them first? Did they all join up and say they were gonna break out? Did the WWE crew like the old crew say the rookies weren't good enough? Were they provoked?

So what's gonna make the rookies attack the WWE crew more? Saying what the first series squad did was an impactful thing or getting destroyed by the WWE crew?

Lol it's just rubbish booking, I'm sorry.
 

Omega

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They don't have to say anything.

I mean did they say Bret Hart was cowardly and rubbish at WM for basically having it be about 8 people versus Vince McMahon?

It's like the NXT rookies form a heel group all of a sudden and then the new rookies either ignore it or say it's good, the WWE crew ignore everything they say and beat them down for good measure to prove a point. But the WWE guys are faces?

They aren't getting revenge, they are beating on guys who while some deserve it, some only said the obvious (they made a grand statement, which isn't a heel thing to say it's the truth).

Who do you boo or who do you cheer? You can't boo the new guys cause they've done nothing wrong and they are nobodies, yet you can't really cheer the faces or WWE crew cause they are destroying a bunch of guys for no real reason.

It's just shitty parity booking that serves no purpose than make people confused and thus, not caring.
It was an interview so saying nothing would be a little stupid. What I'm saying is that the rookies said what tyhey had to say, there was no other choice. The booked beatdown afterwrds is what is wrong. The rookies can't put over the RAW beatdown as it doesn't affect them directly or in the same way so they said the only stuff they could say. Saying that somehow ALL the rookies should put over the heel act on the companies top babyface is as ludicrous as the beatdown that followed.

You seem to be mistaking that I think the idea was a good one but I don't see who benefits from the beatdown eaither. Now if all the heel pro's jumped the rookies at the end that would make sense, heels attacking poeple is kind of expected. The face pro's doing it just supier awkward and makes no sense.

By the way what are you defining Parity Booking as? It's not a phrase I've heard before and you seem to be using it here to suggest that Raw and NXT are being booked differently when Parity basically means equal. Disparity booking makes more sense if the two shows are booked with different ideas.
 

Dogfingers

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That was rubbish. Eli Cottonwood is **** awful, the end where the pro's attacked the rookies was senseless. The only two things to come out of this are the promise of Kaval being excellent in the ring and Miz's rookie promo. Otherwise I'm not seeing much really. That bloke with the glasses seems over.
 

DC

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I thought the show was OK, but the ending was stupid.

On another note, Layla was absolutely smoking hot in the outfit she wore for this show. I've always thought she was good looking, but she's never looked this good before.
 

Jung

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It was an interview so saying nothing would be a little stupid. What I'm saying is that the rookies said what tyhey had to say, there was no other choice. The booked beatdown afterwrds is what is wrong. The rookies can't put over the RAW beatdown as it doesn't affect them directly or in the same way so they said the only stuff they could say. Saying that somehow ALL the rookies should put over the heel act on the companies top babyface is as ludicrous as the beatdown that followed.
I meant say nothing about it being cowardly because then it just defeats the whole point. It's just counter-productive. They can all talk and say Cena deserved it, it made a statement, it was smart, it was stupid etc but don't say it was cowardly and 8 on 1 is unfair because then all the heel heat disappears. Instead of you thinking what ********s you are, you don't think they are a threat cause they are all pussies and the only way they could beat Cena was 8 on 1. Heel heat gone.

Both parts of the segment were wrong cause they made the Raw beatdown totally pointless for both sides. Nobody came out of it looking good, including the original NXT guys who we're told, people think are cowardly losers.

Nobody is saying all the rookies should put the beatdown over, but don't tell your audience that the major beatdown angle was cowardly. Simply because it's unnecessary and harmful. Were they cowardly or just organised/together/cohesive/clever? It's all about interpretations.

In the NWO Hogan was portrayed as a coward cause he always had guys do his dirty business and it totally played on the reverse of the superman Hogan gimmick he'd have for the previous 13 years.

Yet Hall and Nash weren't portrayed as cowards yet they rarely ever had a 2 on 2 situation and always were involved in beatdowns. They were shown as bullies who took advantage of situations and used every advantage they could.

See what I mean?

You've had guys who for the last nie on 3 months have been buried as jobbers (apart from probably Barrett) who week after week lose matches convincingly, get told by their pros they are useless and basically die in front of an audience each time. Then finally they all collectively do something great and the next night get told "nah you're cowards". Great writing guys.

And then the new NXT guys get beatdown just incase they start something?!

All I learnt from this is, NXT guys are the most useless, pointless wrestling "stars" around who are a threat to nobody.

By the way what are you defining Parity Booking as? It's not a phrase I've heard before and you seem to be using it here to suggest that Raw and NXT are being booked differently when Parity basically means equal. Disparity booking makes more sense if the two shows are booked with different ideas.
Parity booking, by all accounts, is WWE's new philsophy of how to book somebody. So if they do something good, you then bury them afterwards to make it even if you will. Or bury them from ages and then all of a sudden push them, i.e. Jack Swagger, Kofi, Miz etc.

So that's what I mean in terms of bury them for ages (almost like a test now to see if you make it, even though by the time they've finished nobody gives a shit about you anyway) and then push them. It's a universal WWE thing, not just 1 show.

And the parity booking I meant for the WWE guys is that Cena gets decked on Raw, WWE gets revenge the night after. All back to equal again for no reason.
 
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Omega

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I meant say nothing about it being cowardly because then it just defeats the whole point. It's just counter-productive. They can all talk and say Cena deserved it, it made a statement, it was smart, it was stupid etc but don't say it was cowardly and 8 on 1 is unfair because then all the heel heat disappears. Instead of you thinking what ********s you are, you don't think they are a threat cause they are all pussies and the only way they could beat Cena was 8 on 1. Heel heat gone.
No, don't see that to be honest. 8 on 1 is cowardly so it's not counter productive to say that 8 guys beat up one guy. That's what bad guys do, that's what makes them a threat Jung the very fact that there are 8 of them

Both parts of the segment were wrong cause they made the Raw beatdown totally pointless for both sides. Nobody came out of it looking good, including the original NXT guys who we're told, people think are cowardly losers.
I don;t think the word Loser was used and as before 8 on 1 is cowardly, if you saw it in real life you'd say it was cowardly and that IS what people think. It doesn't top S1 NXT guys from being a threat in anyway so the beatdown still has all the impact as before. In real life this is how a gang works but people still call them cowards whilst locking themselves away in hiding!

Nobody is saying all the rookies should put the beatdown over, but don't tell your audience that the major beatdown angle was cowardly. Simply because it's unnecessary and harmful. Were they cowardly or just organised/together/cohesive/clever? It's all about interpretations.
I think your interpretation of what is actually harmful to a group is way off the mark to be honest. Any face who has an ounce of sense would call the attack cowardly because that's what a face does. If a face says the attack was cohesive and clever they ARE putting over the beatdown so your wrong to say that' what they should have said. The heel rookies can say whatever they like obviously.

In the NWO Hogan was portrayed as a coward cause he always had guys do his dirty business and it totally played on the reverse of the superman Hogan gimmick he'd have for the previous 13 years.

Yet Hall and Nash weren't portrayed as cowards yet they rarely ever had a 2 on 2 situation and always were involved in beatdowns. They were shown as bullies who took advantage of situations and used every advantage they could.

See what I mean?
I think they were called cowards by the faces though and probably a lot worse. I'm not sure anyone has ever used the phrase bully to put someone over unless your putting them over as a heel. You are putting over a heel by describing him negatively, your supposed to dislike them. If you admire them then they aren't being heels or the fan is being smarky and liking the bad guy.

You've had guys who for the last nie on 3 months have been buried as jobbers (apart from probably Barrett) who week after week lose matches convincingly, get told by their pros they are useless and basically die in front of an audience each time. Then finally they all collectively do something great and the next night get told "nah you're cowards". Great writing guys.
So a few people saying negative things about them ruins the entire angle? Despite the fact that really, when you look at it within kayfabe, what the NXt s1 guys did was a negative thing. A bad thing. A cowardly thing. Seriously Jung I think your taking this way beyond the level of damage it could possibly have done and also overstating the case of how it is damaging. It's not that I can't see what your saying either I just don't see how it applies in this particular case when their are obvious face/heel divides and the action they are having to give a reaction to is a negative heel action. that was my whole point about what else could they say? Any face who doesn't condem the action is by definition not acting like a face.

And then the new NXT guys get beatdown just incase they start something?!

All I learnt from this is, NXT guys are the most useless, pointless wrestling "stars" around who are a threat to nobody.
Which NXT guys? This seasons then yes, last seasons then no....

Since I do my part in the e-fed I know how annoyed I would be if I'd booked a beatdown and then some new face that I was giving a push to did anything to praise a heel attack. Faces should always be verbally disparaging of heels since really that's their only outlet to be negative about anyone.

Parity booking, by all accounts, is WWE's new philsophy of how to book somebody. So if they do something good, you then bury them afterwards to make it even if you will. Or bury them from ages and then all of a sudden push them, i.e. Jack Swagger, Kofi, Miz etc.

So that's what I mean in terms of bury them for ages (almost like a test now to see if you make it, even though by the time they've finished nobody gives a shit about you anyway) and then push them. It's a universal WWE thing, not just 1 show.

And the parity booking I meant for the WWE guys is that Cena gets decked on Raw, WWE gets revenge the night after. All back to equal again for no reason.
Well if you can show me evidence that this is actually the case and not just shoddy booking then I'll agree on how retarded it is. I'm not trying to defend WWE booking as a whole because the making horrific decisions all the f-ing time and ruin really good angles with seemingly pointless booking changes and results. In this case I can't see why you'd have played it any different from the point of view of what each rookie said.


Back to the show...

Cottonwood or Titus O'neil on the mic is just awful but I thought McGillicutty and Watson were both excellent and was genuinely annoyed that he got such little time to speak compared to the others. Watson I'm less surprised as clearly he's being doing it for a while but Hennig Jr obviously has inherited his dads mic skills.

Also quite enjoyed watching Alex Riley no selling his beating until 3 pro's had to beat him down!
 
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Jung

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No, don't see that to be honest. 8 on 1 is cowardly so it's not counter productive to say that 8 guys beat up one guy. That's what bad guys do, that's what makes them a threat Jung the very fact that there are 8 of them
Your missing the point entirely. They shouldn't all be portrayed as cowards because for the last month they've been portrayed as losers...and now they do something impactful and they are cowards. As I said Bret Hart was a coward too, but you won't hear that mentioned. Every fan knows it, but you're buying into something they are selling. If they tell you they are all cowards and basically Cena will destroy them when he gets the chance, then why should we be interested? We already know the result, we are repeatedly told the NXT guys are useless, where's the interest?

It's not about what we know, it's about what they sell to us to get us to buy into something. And that's what is shit.

I don;t think the word Loser was used and as before 8 on 1 is cowardly, if you saw it in real life you'd say it was cowardly and that IS what people think. It doesn't top S1 NXT guys from being a threat in anyway so the beatdown still has all the impact as before. In real life this is how a gang works but people still call them cowards whilst locking themselves away in hiding!
See above. You just don't do it. The NWO weren't constantly called cowards, they were a major threat to WCW. Yes the NXT guys are nowhere near the level of the NWO, but if you want to put somebody over as something important you can't just under-sell what they do or else it defeats the whole point of what they did.

As I said you're getting confused with "oh but they are cowards" and being told by the company who's trying to sell you a compelling angle...yeah they are cowards. You keep talking about real life, but this isn't real life, it's a pro wrestling angle where the aim is to make money and get you interested.

I think your interpretation of what is actually harmful to a group is way off the mark to be honest. Any face who has an ounce of sense would call the attack cowardly because that's what a face does. If a face says the attack was cohesive and clever they ARE putting over the beatdown so your wrong to say that' what they should have said. The heel rookies can say whatever they like obviously.
Again you've misunderstood. Why does the face have to say it's cowardly? That's like saying a heel should have said to Daniel Bryan, you're a massive loser who can't beat anybody and can't win a match.

Yeah it's true, but don't constantly ram it down. We all know Great Khali is an awful wrestler who has no ability and is one of the least threatening monster in history. So if he decks Cena, should Cena the next night say well I know you can't wrestle and you don't scare me, I can beat you easily cause your so unbelievably bad? Of course he doesn't!

The whole concept of wrestling is creating something and selling that and making an audience believe. If you repeatedly tell your audience so and so is crap or so and so is a coward, when they are trying to create the opposite, it won't possibly work.

The face can say why did they attack Cena, what did he do to deserve it or why did they destroy the ring. Or why attack the WWE when they were the ones who gave them an opportunity. Or why attack everything the WWE stands for or an innocent commentator like Jerry Lawler.

Nobody says they have to support the attack, just don't f*cking say it's cowardly when you're trying to put them over as angry and cool. Especially 1 night afterwards!

I think they were called cowards by the faces though and probably a lot worse. I'm not sure anyone has ever used the phrase bully to put someone over unless your putting them over as a heel. You are putting over a heel by describing him negatively, your supposed to dislike them. If you admire them then they aren't being heels or the fan is being smarky and liking the bad guy.
But they are putting them over as heels! How is calling them a bully not describing them negatively? Who says anything about having to admire them?

So a few people saying negative things about them ruins the entire angle? Despite the fact that really, when you look at it within kayfabe, what the NXt s1 guys did was a negative thing. A bad thing. A cowardly thing. Seriously Jung I think your taking this way beyond the level of damage it could possibly have done and also overstating the case of how it is damaging. It's not that I can't see what your saying either I just don't see how it applies in this particular case when their are obvious face/heel divides and the action they are having to give a reaction to is a negative heel action. that was my whole point about what else could they say? Any face who doesn't condem the action is by definition not acting like a face.
Lol I'm not saying it ruins the entire angle at all, you said that. I'm saying what they said coupled with them getting a beatdown is an incredibly crap way to follow up on the initial great angle. Of course it can still go well, but they've started off on a really shitty direction.

You've gone off on one based on something you've misread that I think all the rookies heel or face should support the series one guys, when in reality all I said was they shouldn't say they were cowards. Much like Bret Hart wasn't called a coward after his Vince match, even though he obviously was.

It's merely about getting people over, and if that's their approach it's going to be really difficult for them.

Well if you can show me evidence that this is actually the case and not just shoddy booking then I'll agree on how retarded it is. I'm not trying to defend WWE booking as a whole because the making horrific decisions all the f-ing time and ruin really good angles with seemingly pointless booking changes and results. In this case I can't see why you'd have played it any different from the point of view of what each rookie said.
Just look at the way Swagger, Kingston, Morrison, Punk etc all get booked.

I mean Swagger jobs to Santino one month, wins MITB the next, wins the title, then loses like 4 in a row including one against John Morrison, before beating Orton on PPV.

As for what I'd have done last night. Had the NXT faces not say they were cowards, then have the NXT guys fight with each other over what happened last night and the WWE guys do the same arguing with each other cause some people had their rookies best interest, while some were out for themselves, and some forgot how hard it was to break into WWE.

So basically mutiny everywhere as they all disagree on what the NXT S1 guys did and why they did it.
 
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