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HHH a draw?

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Paul

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Lots of people on this site have been very vigouresly either defending or attacking HHH, so lets have it out on the important point- can he really draw a crowd?

Hunter normaly wrestles as a heel, therefor to be a good draw people come to see him lose, a face is a draw if the people want to see him win. Correct up to now? So the bigger draw is what the fans want most. If what I say is true, and I belive it is, HHH isnt a good draw. At events how many people chant anti HHH things? The latest Raw seems to be an exception, normaly they just boo him. On the other hand people wanted to see Lesnar lose, making him by my definition, a better drawing heel.

I mean check the run up to Goldbergs title win, did the crowds want HHH to lose or Da Man to win? IMO they wanted Goldberg. Again, making him a better draw.

So thats one way of looking at it, what do you think? I'm sure a few of you will want to jump to his defence (SC Steve Austin, this is your cue mate), so come on.
 

DraVen

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HHH hasn't been a draw for a good year or so now. Times are changing and he's getting left behind, no matter how pushed he is. Only now with his self-serving attitude gone for at least a week or two is he starting to be of any use to the WWE again.
 

FTW

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The thing that drew me to liking Triple H was the fact that the odds were seemingly always against him, yet he was already ready to defend his title and fight hard to win it back (note his matches in 2000 against Foley). His Iron Man match against The Rock in my opinion made him look an even stronger champion, as in my view and what I can remember he carried The Rock through that match and although it wasn't a match for the ages, it was a decent bout between the two. Also, Triple H always had the 'rouge' image going on. He always seemed to be 'the outsider' or the guy willing to bend the rules in order to get his way, and he was ruthless as hell. However for some reason when the WWE gave him the world title, they decided that Triple H was going to become more of a 'classic heel' in that he would hide away from fights and loose alot on build up matches, but when his title was on the line he could pull off a victory. In my view this is where the WWE got it wrong. Triple H's image was fine and should have been left alone.

One huge problem that Triple H has, which is no fault of his own. Was that he tore his quad around the time when he was 'the man'. He was having great matches and involved in a rather 'tasty' angle where he was paired with SCSA, which seemed at the time (to me anyhow) that it would end in a SCSA face turn and a huge showdown between the two and it had my mouth watering for one. However when he tore his quad, his problem was that the fans wanted him back immediately, and were really looking forward to his return and this really put a lot of pressure on Triple H to be as good when he came back as when he left. And personally I feel as though Triple H has never got back to that level. Which has hurt his career. Also a string of bad fueds in early 2003 and a long title run where he seemingly beat a bunch of former WCW guys who looked a few years past their sell buy dates to say the least. On this mamoth title run, Triple H never really did much. Didn't put on any 5 star matches and therefore angered a lot of fans.

In closing, Triple H isn't the draw he once was and I doubt he ever will be again. A card with Triple H will be a better card than a card without Triple H, but the WWE will have trouble drawing huge numbers on any main event in the future with Triple H, unless something drastically changes.

For the record I'm not a huge Triple H fan, nor do I dislike him. I pitty him for some of the harsh critisim that the internet in general has thrown at him and he cannot be at fault for falling in love with Steph or cannot help the position he is in. But if Triple H can look in the mirror from an objective view then he will surely realise that his days at the top of the wrestling world have passed him by.
 

Dickie Hyde

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Well, you knew I'd be coming here, so here I am.

The fact is that Triple H is a good draw. He plays his heel character extremely well and gets good reactions from the fans. There are anti-HHH chants all of the time, last week was NO exception. Maybe his draws were better some time ago? Whether you believe that or not, he is still a good draw nowadays.

He is a solid main eventer on the WWE roster. The reason why you don't notice the chants as much when you're watching on TV is simply because there are people like me in the crowd. I wont boo the man, I'll cheer him. He always gets a mixed reaction, but when the majority of the crowd is against him, that's when you'll hear those chants loud and clear.

I remember the Road To Insurrextion in Nottingham 2003, as soon as his music hit, there were cheers and there were boos, and you could tell them apart and hear them clearly. But obviously, that's because I was there live. If that event was televised, the cheers and boos probably wouldn't have had much impact, I really don't know? Seeing as it's a UK event, it probably would have :D

The fact is however Tripps draws, he draws. He's a heel and gets a majority of boos and anti-HHH chants. However, there are some cheerers out there, and some who just keep quiet.

Yes, the majority of the crowds wanted Goldberg to win in their feuds, and as you said earlier, Tripps is playing the heel here :rolleyes2:

The fact is, I love HHH for his in-ring ability, gimmick ect, the lot. If he was to turn face I have a feeling that he would not have the effect which he does on me now. He's a great draw as a heel, and when he turns face, it just gives those quiet cheerers a chance to express themselves :)

If the WWE want to play it right, keep Tripps as a heel... (although I'd still stick by him if he turned)

By the way, where's Ed these days? I haven't seen him around for a while. This is a good one for him too...
 

The Beltster

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I dont think any one man is a great draw at this time. However, since Eddie Guererro has held the WWE title, SmackDown! house show attendence has gone up, so he is proving to be a decent draw. With HHH on RAW as champ or not, the attendence doesnt go up or down, so he isnt a good draw, but he isnt a bad draw, you know?
Wrestling seems to be ready to pick up again though, so hopefully all the guys will help out making it huge again.
HHH is doing good things lately putting people over after pretty much wreaking havoc on the RAW roster destroying Booker T and RVD's pushes with his selfishness. Hopefully he realises that jobbing wont hurt his career as he is already seen as a big star by the fans (although not a legend, like he desperately wants to be).
 

Paul

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Yes, the majority of the crowds wanted Goldberg to win in their feuds, and as you said earlier, Tripps is playing the heel here :rolleyes2:

The fact is, I love HHH for his in-ring ability, gimmick ect, the lot. If he was to turn face I have a feeling that he would not have the effect which he does on me now. He's a great draw as a heel, and when he turns face, it just gives those quiet cheerers a chance to express themselves :)

If the WWE want to play it right, keep Tripps as a heel... (although I'd still stick by him if he turned)

By the way, where's Ed these days? I haven't seen him around for a while. This is a good one for him too...
Yes matey, but thats the point I wanted to make- people wanted Goldberg to win more than they wanted HHH to lose, making Goldberg the draw in that fued.His in ring ability has been sub standard since his return from the quad injury, but perhaps I was just spoilt by the fued with Foley those years ago! And as for his gimmick: well, actually I quite like it.

Yes he should stay as a heel, or possibly a kinda lone wolf tweener, I can picture him running to the ring to save HBK from a 3 on 1 beating, then laying him out as well. Like he did to Shawn and Benoit on the run up to WrestlemaniaXX, but on everyone not just his upcoming foes. Almost like Stone Cold used to in the run up to the Royal Rumble '96(?).
 

Dickie Hyde

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darkstar said:
Yes matey, but thats the point I wanted to make- people wanted Goldberg to win more than they wanted HHH to lose, making Goldberg the draw in that fued.His in ring ability has been sub standard since his return from the quad injury, but perhaps I was just spoilt by the fued with Foley those years ago! And as for his gimmick: well, actually I quite like it.

Yes he should stay as a heel, or possibly a kinda lone wolf tweener, I can picture him running to the ring to save HBK from a 3 on 1 beating, then laying him out as well. Like he did to Shawn and Benoit on the run up to WrestlemaniaXX, but on everyone not just his upcoming foes. Almost like Stone Cold used to in the run up to the Royal Rumble '96(?).
How can you want someone to win more than you want someone to lose? Goldberg was the face and Triple H was the heel. It's simple. They wanted Goldberg to win AND Triple H to lose. Same thing. Yes, there were lots of HHH "haters" for that event there not wanting him to win, but for that match, the majority of them were Goldberg lovers if they weren't already. If they want Triple H to lose they are going to cheer on Golderg, as well as give out anti-HHH chants.

And I think you could be on about Royal Rumble 98? Where Austin won. He was the marked man after "doing un to others before they do un to him." Is that what you were talking about? Or am I mistaken. I have never seen the royal rumble 1996...
 

The Beltster

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SCSteveAustin said:
And I think you could be on about Royal Rumble 98? Where Austin won. He was the marked man after "doing un to others before they do un to him." Is that what you were taling about? Or am I mistaken. I have never seen the royal rumble 1996...
It was the 98 Rumble yes, Austin wasnt in the WWF in January 1996 for the Rumble I dont believe, he was still toiling in ECW. Vader was the big debut in the 96 Rumble, along with the return of Jake Roberts.
 

The Beltster

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Tajiri said:
Austin was in the 96 Rumble as "The Ringmaster".
Oh yeah thats right, thanks for the correction. He went on to WMXII to matchup with Savio...it was horrible, although their strap match at IYH8 was cool as hell.
 

Paul

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Well, for example I allways wanted X-Pac to lose more than I wanted his opponant to win. Have you never thought to yourself "I want wrestler X to lose" before thinking "I hope Y wins"? A good example would be Piper in the 80's, he claimed that people turned up to watch him get beaten to a pulp rather than to see who did the beating. Understand my point?

I'm not sure about which rumble it was, have been too tired to think straight.

Hang on, the 96 rumble was a HBK win over Davey Boy in the end wasnt it? My bad!
 

The Beltster

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darkstar said:
Well, for example I allways wanted X-Pac to lose more than I wanted his opponant to win. Have you never thought to yourself "I want wrestler X to lose" before thinking "I hope Y wins"? A good example would be Piper in the 80's, he claimed that people turned up to watch him get beaten to a pulp rather than to see who did the beating. Understand my point?

I'm not sure about which rumble it was, have been too tired to think straight.

Hang on, the 96 rumble was a HBK win over Davey Boy in the end wasnt it? My bad!
And it had the Taker vs Bret WWF title match where Diesel screwed Taker. I remember being really pissed off about that! :lol: It also had Razor vs Goldust, where Goldy was REALLY queering him up. Hillarious stuff, at that time...
 

DraVen

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SCSteveAustin said:
How can you want someone to win more than you want someone to lose? Goldberg was the face and Triple H was the heel. It's simple. They wanted Goldberg to win AND Triple H to lose. Same thing.
No it's not. I agree with Darkstar fully on his point.

Case in point: I don't like Chris Benoit as champion, and right now, I don't actually care who wins the title at Backlash, whether Shawn or HHH, as long as Benoit doesn't retain (which he probably will, but that's not relevent in this instance).

Another case: Jeff Jarrett v Chyna. I never liked either superstar much at all during the late 90s, but I'd be damned if Chyna was gonna win, so I didn't really care if I didn't like Jarrett. I just wanted Chyna to lose.
 

Dickie Hyde

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draVen said:
No it's not. I agree with Darkstar fully on his point.

Case in point: I don't like Chris Benoit as champion, and right now, I don't actually care who wins the title at Backlash, whether Shawn or HHH, as long as Benoit doesn't retain (which he probably will, but that's not relevent in this instance).

Another case: Jeff Jarrett v Chyna. I never liked either superstar much at all during the late 90s, but I'd be damned if Chyna was gonna win, so I didn't really care if I didn't like Jarrett. I just wanted Chyna to lose.
I understand that point and totally agree that this happens. I, myself, probably take up opinions like this without even noticing it.

However, what I'm saying is, during the Goldberg/Triple H feud, the HHH haters also wanted Goldberg to win, thus they chanted his name. Tripps was still a great draw for the feud IMO, just there were many Goldberg fans too, and some whom also hated HHH. E.G. - I'm an Austin mark, and I totally cannot stand Bradshaw. I want Bradshaw to lose every match he has, he bores me to death. If there was an Austin Vs Bradshaw bout I would be chanting for Austin more instead of anti-Bradshaw chants. Bradshaw would still be playing a great heel and I'd be wanting him to lose, but I would be chanting for Austin.
 

Jack

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triple h is a huge draw his promos are good which means he can build up a match he is a good wrestler and always has good storylines his last bad one was the necrophilia angle which wasnt a bad storyline just didnt suit a lot of people
 

The Beltster

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jackbibby said:
triple h is a huge draw his promos are good which means he can build up a match he is a good wrestler and always has good storylines his last bad one was the necrophilia angle which wasnt a bad storyline just didnt suit a lot of people
HHH isnt a huge draw, if he was a huge draw he would be pulling more than 2500-3500 to house shows. He is a constant draw, not a great one. And that necro angle was awful, just pure crap!
 

Simon

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If I see one more HHH thread I think I will explode.

AAAAAAAAAAAGH.

I said the same thing in another thread asking the same question like last month, I'm with Beltmark in that nobody is really a draw these days. Nobody bought Wrestlemania XX for the matches did they? As far as I'm concerned there is nobody in the company bar Rock who would actually inspire the more casual fans to go out and buy a PPV. Other than him I think these days its a pretty level playing field.

Why else would the WWE actually put something like Eddie Guerrero v Bradshaw as a PPV headline if they still thought the old way about drawing power?
 

Ed_666

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Since we don't have a breakdown of the last 2 years house show attendances, stating how many people were there at the start, turned up late, left early etc, it's pretty hard to prove who is a draw in that sense.

However, we can still go off crowd reaction. People who couldn't give a crap about a wrestler won't boo or cheer him, because they don't care enough to make the effort. And if they can't be bothered to cheer/boo someone, they're not going to pay to see him.

HHH gets some of the loudest pops on the show, and he's a HEEL! People are still willing to cheer him, even though they're supposed to boo. The same thing happened a year or two ago with Kurt Angle, he'd get a huge pop before the boos took over. HHH gets louder pops than most of the faces on the show, which surely shows his popularity.

Fans might hate his character, but they're very glad to see him on the show.

Ed
 

Paul

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Hey there Ed. But surely if he's getting pops like that then he's not doing his job as a heel properly?
 
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