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Ched Evans: Should he be allowed to return to football?

Should Ched Evans be allowed to return to Football?


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Paul

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Youre totally and utterly wrong about it not mattering. No you dont need outright spoken consent in law, but you do need implied consent at the least. And that's why McDonald was found not guilty, they'd met in the street and went back together. Evans didn't do this. He got a text, went to the hotel, lied to the night porter, went into the room where the girl was having sex with McDonald. Evans then joined in. Massive difference
 

Jack

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Exactly, consent can be implied which is why it's entirely irrelevant that Evans didn't ask her for sex. She asked him for oral sex, which he gave, and if you're accepting that her going to a hotel room is enough reason for implying consent, asking for oral sex obviously is too. If the sex wasn't consensual, it makes no sense that he'd give her oral sex anyway though.

There's no factual basis to prove Evans guilty. Maybe he did rape her, I don't know, but I don't see enough evidence to warrant finding him guilty of it either.
 

Paul

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Except for the reasons I gave saying why he didnt have even implied consent.

I wish I was eloquent enough online to explain. Ho hum.
 

The Beltster

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To be fair, threesomes are fun. Moreso with 2 chicks but eh, cant blame him for getting stuck in. And we all know no means yes.

:)
 

Boyo

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Except for the reasons I gave saying why he didnt have even implied consent.

I wish I was eloquent enough online to explain. Ho hum.
You're right that there was no witness to the girl saying "f me harder", but there is the proof that Evans gave her oral sex before intercourse.

Does a rapist perform oral sex on a girl? Has that ever happened? (I honestly don't know). If all you need is implied consent, then surely performing that act alone is implication enough?

I can see why convictions for rape are at 6% though. Proving the "sex" happened is easy enough, but proving it was a rape is very hard.

Cheers!
 

DC

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She asked him for oral sex, which he gave, and if you're accepting that her going to a hotel room is enough reason for implying consent, asking for oral sex obviously is too. If the sex wasn't consensual, it makes no sense that he'd give her oral sex anyway though.
You're right that there was no witness to the girl saying "f me harder", but there is the proof that Evans gave her oral sex before intercourse.

Does a rapist perform oral sex on a girl? Has that ever happened? (I honestly don't know). If all you need is implied consent, then surely performing that act alone is implication enough?
The oral sex might have been consensual, but that doesn't mean full penetrative sex was.
 

Ciaran The King

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He was convicted of rape so therefore he doesn't deserve the right to play again at a professional level. If it is proved otherwise and she completely lied then fine let him play.
 

The Beltster

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He was convicted of rape so therefore he doesn't deserve the right to play again at a professional level. If it is proved otherwise and she completely lied then fine let him play.
Just out of interest, what does his job have to do with anything? If a builder raped somebody, would you say he is no longer allowed to be a builder? What about a bin man? If a bin man raped somebody, would you say he isn't allowed to be a bin man anymore? I'm curious, because his job is completely irrelevant and you cant have it both ways....so really, what you're saying is if he raped somebody, he should never be allowed to work or get any job ever again, even after his punishment is over and his time has been served. So in that case, what do you do with him?
 

Evil Gringo

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He was convicted of rape so therefore he doesn't deserve the right to play again at a professional level. If it is proved otherwise and she completely lied then fine let him play.
The thing with the law is that it isn't as simple and as cut and dried as the verdict being overturned meaning she lied. If a court finds there isn't sufficient evidence to have found him guilty in the first place and the case was mismanaged and therefore the verdict thrown out, it doesn't mean she lied, it doesn't mean he didn't do it - it just means he shouldn't have been convicted of it based on the case presented.

Also DC makes a fair point, just because a girl performs oral sex on you, or you on them or various non-penetrative acts of sex does mean she then wants you to go into full blow, fourth base sex.

Fact is she was drunk as f**k, of that there is no doubt. A decent bloke would not have even attempted to have sex with her even if she was nailing his mate or not and she seemed like a girl up for a good time, a decent bloke would have been somewhere else completely.

But for me the morals of what he did aren't the issue of if he can play or not - legally he can if someone takes the punt on him just like any other person who has committed a crime and is released can - its all down to if a possible employer thinks they are a risk worth taking and won't reoffend, that is the law in black and white and also the issue he faces now because no one wants to take the punt on him, not because of what he can in his chosen profession but because of the fuss he'll bring with him which is also overblown. Like I asked before in this thread, how many convicted rapists have been employed since their release who aren't professional footballers? How many of those have more then likely sworn their innocence since the beginning as well? How many of those are in the news EVERY single day?

The main question to ask is, how did he get an early release when he has never admitted fault or shown remorse for the crime he was committed - I thought they took that into account when it came to parole?
 

DC

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The main question to ask is, how did he get an early release when he has never admitted fault or shown remorse for the crime he was committed - I thought they took that into account when it came to parole?
It was most likely part of the original sentence; 5yrs, but 2.5yrs with good behaviour and the rest out on licence, meaning if he reoffends in any way, he's back inside.
 

Jack

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The oral sex might have been consensual, but that doesn't mean full penetrative sex was.
I agree and it all comes back to whether consent was implied or not. If you're going to let one guy off because he walked into a hotel with the girl and that means she was up for having sex, surely you have to let off the guy who she wanted oral sex from? That's a far bigger implication she wanted to have penetrative sex than merely walking into a hotel with someone.

Ultimately, we don't know whether she was up for it, too drunk to refuse or flat out refused and they raped her anyway. There's no solid evidence to back up either argument, which is why Evans should have been let off.
 

DC

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surely you have to let off the guy who she wanted oral sex from?
That's assuming she knew it was Evans in the first place (as from all accounts she was so wasted, she might not have known it was someone else).
 

Ciaran The King

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Just out of interest, what does his job have to do with anything? If a builder raped somebody, would you say he is no longer allowed to be a builder? What about a bin man? If a bin man raped somebody, would you say he isn't allowed to be a bin man anymore? I'm curious, because his job is completely irrelevant and you cant have it both ways....so really, what you're saying is if he raped somebody, he should never be allowed to work or get any job ever again, even after his punishment is over and his time has been served. So in that case, what do you do with him?
My opinion is that he is in a job that pushes him into the public eye and portray him as a hero of sorts to younger fans. I'm not saying he differs from working as a builder, doctor, lawyer or any other form of employment but.......its difficult to explain fully. I just think it's a despicable act and that if he isn't proved innocent then he doesn't deserve the right to be in a role such as the one he wants
 

Omega

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You have to trust a doctor or lawyer, you don't (and probably shouldn't) trust a football player.
 

etz

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Agreed, but there is also a component of being a role model. Public figures are (or should be) held to a higher standard.
 

etz

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Agreed, but there is also a component of being a role model. Public figures are (or should be) held to a higher standard.
 

Omega

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Why? I mean if you are a politician or someone with power then sure but does (and I pick the first celebutard name that pops into my head) Katie Price need to be held to a higher standard because she's a public figure? The Ultimate Warrior was my hero growing up but I never hit anyone with a flying should tackle or wore facepaint to school. If a kid likes Ched Evans because he bangs in 20 goals for the club then he's not idolising him because he's a rapist.

I think we need to get past the point of trying to say Ched Evans is required to be whiter than white to play football (unless it's with John Terry of course...) and that people just don't like him because of what he;s done and would rather he got punished a bit more.
 

The Beltster

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Yeah just because he's a footballer shouldn't make any difference. Omega explained it better than I could, I agree with him totally.
 

DC

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Various news reports are saying the deal with Oldham fell through after the family of board members were threatened via emails and social media, including at least one cretin who said that if the club sign Evans, they will rape the daughter of one of the directors.

That's just great logic at work there. FFS.
 
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