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Ched Evans: Should he be allowed to return to football?

Discussion in 'Hall Of Fame' started by Omega, Oct 17, 2014.

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Should Ched Evans be allowed to return to Football?

  1. Yes

    77.8%
  2. No

    22.2%
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  1. Evil Gringo

    Evil Gringo Not really Evil, but I like Burritos

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    According to the BBC website, senior officials at Oldham have told the clubs sponsors that the deal with Evans is almost agreed and to prepare for the announcement of his signing, either tomorrow or Friday.

    Lee Hughes ended up at Oldham as well after he was released, strange coincidence don't you think?
     
  2. King

    King Well-Known Member Forum Leader

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    2 of Oldham's sponsors pulled out of the club today, and it now looks like Evens will be an Oldham player.
     
  3. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    Big call from Oldham. I've procrastinated enough about the difficulties of the issue in this thread already, but will leave you with this:

    Last night I stumbled upon an "anti-Ched Evans" diatribe from what appeared to be a legally clued up feminist. I believe she was in the legal arena. Anyway, she's getting very annoyed with the "well he's appealing the verdict" argument and goes on to list, in detail, all the evidence that convicted him. It's all freely available online btw, this stuff.

    Any doubt, she says, about his guilt and you're a woman hating so and so who does not understand how difficult it is to get an actual conviction for rape. It's meant to be at about 6%. It must be a double nightmare for any woman who suffers a rape; being raped and then proving it.

    So this retort goes on there, seemingly from another legally clued up person. Another woman as it goes. She's stunned. THAT'S the evidence that sent him to prison? She asks. No wonder he's appealing. She goes on to say that any half-decent lawyer will be able to overturn the verdict. Whether he actually raped her or not, the evidence wasn't good enough to convict him. In her eyes.

    So at lunch today I googled "Ched Evans evidence", just to satisfy my own curiosity if nothing more, and his own website came up. I'm not going to link to it but it's really very simple to find. On it he brazenly shows all the evidence ("undisputed facts") to prove his innocence, including CCTV footage, texts, witness testimony, who paid for what and when.

    Crumbs, he might get a successful appeal, that's all I can say. Not to say he isn't a rapist, but going back to a previous point, you can see why it's only a 6% conviction rate. It's unpleasant reading at times :).

    Cheers!
     
  4. Inno

    Inno I'm the good looking one up there Subscriber

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    Oldham probably said no, but Evans just took it as yes.
     
  5. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    Ha! Although in this case Oldham were too drunk to recall if they said yes or not, so assumed they wouldn't have.

    Cheers!
     
  6. Magic

    Magic The first apple tree. Subscriber Forum Leader

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    Zing.
     
  7. King

    King Well-Known Member Forum Leader

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    Looks like the deal to Oldham is now off.
     
  8. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    Some sources citing threats against Oldham staff should Evans sign for the club.

    Cheers!
     
  9. Omega

    Omega Global Modd Subscriber

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    Mmmh, physical violence is always the best solution to sexual assault of course...
     
  10. lawrence619

    lawrence619 Member

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    There really, really aren't sensible doubts about this conviction. Essentially Evans was convicted on his own evidence. He just doesn't accept it because he doesn't think that what he did should be a crime.
    And equally, he has not lodged any appeal. He has twice had his application for leave to appeal turned down. All that is happening now is that the Criminal Cases Review Commission - which has nothing to do with the courts - is looking at whether there are any grounds for trying a new application for leave to appeal.
     
  11. The Beltster

    The Beltster Well-Known Member

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    Its pretty ludicrous to say he needs clauses in his contract. Its not like he's going to start raping everybody in sight once he gets a job.
     
  12. Evil Gringo

    Evil Gringo Not really Evil, but I like Burritos

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    I agree but that way it gives the club a bit of a moral boost because a) their trying to rehabilitate an offender and b) they are trying to ensure he fulfils his parole requirements and also it warns Evans that the previous types of behaviour he was indulging in whilst being in a privileged profession will not be tolerated and should hopefully keep him back on track.

    The irony is in the time people have been arguing this issue, how many convicted rapists have been released and are now back in employment that weren't a footballer before they where convicted? I imagine its more then one.
     
  13. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    You're right that Evans hasn't lodged an appeal yet. He has to almost pitch his case for an appeal before he's allowed to actually appeal for real. He's pitched twice and been denied twice. It's difficult to ascertain what he pitched with, but I'm assuming he wants to use the evidence that was deemed in admissible in court.

    This case does intrigue me though, it really does. Maybe this weekend I'm going to go and read up on what evidence there was to convict him, because when you read the material regarding his defence, he was denied use of tonnes of evidence whilst the prosecution's case was "our client was too drunk to remember".

    The saddest thing about this entire case is that the girl has not once, ever, claimed she was raped by either Evans or his friend. Not once. She did indeed go to the Police the morning after the night with the two men, but it was to complain that one of the drinks she had in the nightclub (hours before she met Evans) was spiked.

    From there it seems the Police filed a rape case on her behalf.

    Admittedly though I've mainly read Evans' defence stuff, so I really want to read in detail the prosecution's side of things. He IS convicted of the crime after all.

    FAKE EDIT: Evans has today come out and apologised for the situation. Not for the rape, he maintains his innocence, but for the situation generally. He'll have a club next season I'm sure.

    Cheers!
     
  14. Evil Gringo

    Evil Gringo Not really Evil, but I like Burritos

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    Hull boss Steve Bruce, that well known legal eagle, has backed Evans to make a return to football and believes he may have a case for an appeal after reviewing the facts of the case. Bit of a silly/brave call to do that and added pressure when you're side aren't doing too great this season as well.

    Gordon Taylor of the PFA has for some reason compared the case to Hillsborough in the way that Evans has continued to maintain his innocence much like the Liverpool fans in attendance that day. Even though the two situations could not be further apart - well done Taylor.

    Finally the FA have accepted they cannot intervene to prevent Evans from returning but Dyke has said he will be looking into strengthening the rules around player conduct and behaviour to try and prevent players who commit similar crimes or serious crimes in future from returning to the game - this after Ed Miliband stated he wouldn't sign Evans if he was in Oldham's shoes and the Shadow Minister of Sport also stating that Evans shouldn't be allowed to return in what seems like a bit of vote grubbing to me.

    I tell you when it comes to this case, opinions are like a**holes - everyone has one.
     
  15. Ravenmark

    Ravenmark Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, he shouldn't have considered getting back into football until his appeal had been heard and then he could have explored his options when he knew the outcome.

    If his appeal fails and his conviction stands, he should stay away from football for his own good as the abuse he would get from the stands will be intolerable.
     
  16. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    I've mentioned it before in this thread, but it's very apparent the majority of the football fraternity at least believe Evans is innocent.

    Cheers!
     
  17. Ravenmark

    Ravenmark Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that as well Boyo (from people who work in the game) and that he has a good chance of the conviction being quashed.
     
  18. Boyo

    Boyo New Member

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    Whilst his two pitches for appeal have both been denied, his case has been taken to the Case Commission Review (or something like that, cannot remember the exact name right now) and they have fast-tracked it. Not due to the fact he's a celebrity, or that there's so much public interest in the case, but due to "sound legal reasons".

    I've read plenty from both sides regarding this case, and the more I read, especially surrounding:
    a) the evidence used to convict him
    b) the evidence he wasn't allowed to bring to court

    It's pretty clear to me that he should never have been convicted. That's not to say he didn't do it, but there wasn't enough evidence to prove it. Will watch this one with great interest. I'm no legal mind but from what I can see an overturning of the conviction is inevitable.

    Cheers!
     
  19. Paul

    Paul Well-Known Member

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    Really? I find the opposite myself.

    Evans turned up in the room, having lied to get the key, while McDonald was having sex with her. There is no evidence that she expected or wanted him to be there. He may have asked the pair outside to film what happened (it's unclear how they found the right window so quickly unless he told them where to go). Both men denied on oath that they had asked her if Evans could have sex with her. No witness said they heard her "calling out to him on numerous occasions to '**** me harder'" that Evans said she did (three or four people were in a position to do so). When he left, he did so via a fire escape.

    The jury were specifically asked by the judge to consider their verdicts separately and clearly did so. In England and Wales, a conviction needs there not to have been consent and the accused not to have had a reasonable belief that there was consent. The jury must have decided that there was not consent (presumably due to lack of capacity because of intoxication - every witness not interested in having sex with her said she was extremely drunk) but that McDonald may have had a reasonable belief that there was and that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Evans did not.


    Credit to that bit of writing goes to the internet. A wiki talk page specifically.
     
  20. Jack

    Jack Well-Known Member

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    Him not specifically asking her to have sex isn't an admission of rape, not in the slightest. Two people could have consensual sex without saying a single word, it means nothing that he didn't ask and she didn't give permission. I find it remarkable that so much of the case against Evans hinges on that point when it's so obviously irrelevant.

    I don't know whether Evans is guilty or not, and I don't have a high opinion of his actions even if they weren't rape, though I don't see anything in the case against him to find him guilty. There just isn't anywhere near enough evidence to prove that he did something wrong. A man getting found guilty of rape when there's such little evidence behind that conviction is worrying to me.
     
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